#all approved by tolkien estate

[ghostinthetumbchine]

I know this is going to be controversial but every time i see another heated debate over the rings and who made them and how sauron didnt make the three..:

Silmarillion is meant to be understood as a set of legends and myths passed along by elves. Some of them are gonna be inaccurate or wholy made up especially if there is reason for it

During LOTR it is made very clear, that no, the three were not untouched by Sauron - they will be under his influence when he has the one and they lose power with his fall as all other works of his hand and power on middle earth - that last part is most incriminating evidence

Both Galadriel and Elrond are very cagey about these rings in LOTR; Elrond says that the intention behind their creation was different so they work differently than the rest

So yes, we can argue/interpret differently the way these events played out because of everything that happened and was said that is conflicting with the pure "they were made by Celebrimbor only and Sauron had nothing to do with it" narrative - especially when youre repeatedly shown the elves have a reason to want to believe that and spread that belief

[suzannahnatters]

So here's one of the coolest things that has happened to me as a Tolkien nut and an amateur medievalist. It's also impacted my view of the way Tolkien writes women. Here's Carl Stephenson in MEDIEVAL FEUDALISM, explaining the roots of the ceremony of knighthood: "In the second century after Christ the Roman historian Tacitus wrote an essay which he called Germania, and which has remained justly famous. He declares that the Germans, though divided into numerous tribes, constitute a single people characterised by common traits and a common mode of life. The typical German is a warrior. [...] Except when armed, they perform no business, either private or public. But it is not their custom that any one should assume arms without the formal approval of the tribe. Before the assembly the youth receives a shield and spear from his father, some other relative, or one of the chief men, and this gift corresponds to the toga virilis among the Romans--making him a citizen rather than a member of a household" (pp 2-3). Got it?

Remember how Tolkien was a medievalist who based his Rohirrim on Anglo-Saxon England, which came from those Germanic tribes Tacitus was talking about? Stephenson argues that the customs described by Tacitus continued into the early middle ages eventually giving rise to the medieval feudal system. One of these customs was the gift of arms, which transformed into the ceremony of knighthood: "Tacitus, it will be remembered, describes the ancient German custom by which a youth was presented with a shield and a spear to mark his attainment of man's estate. What seems to the be same ceremony reappears under the Carolingians. In 791, we are told, Charlemagne caused Prince Louis to be girded with a sword in celebration of his adolescence; and forty-seven years later Louis in turn decorated his fifteen-year-old son Charles "with the arms of manhood, i.e., a sword." Here, obviously, we may see the origin of the later adoubement, which long remained a formal investiture with arms, or with some one of them as a symbol. Thus the Bayeux Tapestry represents the knighting of Earl Harold by William of Normandy under the legend: Hic Willelmus dedit Haroldo arma (Here William gave arms to Harold). [...] Scores of other examples are to be found in the French chronicles and chansons de geste, which, despite much variation of detail, agree on the essentials. And whatever the derivation of the words, the English expression "dubbing to knighthood" must have been closely related to the French adoubement" (pp 47-48.)

In its simplest form, according to Stephenson, the ceremony of knighthood included "at most the presentation of a sword, a few words of admonition, and the accolade." OK. So what does this have to do with Tolkien and his women? AHAHAHAHA I AM SO GLAD YOU ASKED. First of all, let's agree that Tolkien, a medievalist, undoubtedly was aware of all the above. Second, turn with me in your copy of The Lord of the Rings to chapter 6 of The Two Towers, "The King of the Golden Hall", when Theoden and his councillors agree that Eowyn should lead the people while the men are away at war. (This, of course, was something that medieval noblewomen regularly did: one small example is an 1178 letter from a Hospitaller knight serving in the Latin kingdom of Jerusalem which records that before marching out to the battle of Montgisard, "We put the defence of the Tower of David and the whole city in the hands of our women".) But in The Lord of the Rings, there's a little ceremony.

"'Let her be as lord to the Eorlingas, while we are gone.' 'It shall be so,' said Theoden. 'Let the heralds announce to the folk that the Lady Eowyn will lead them!' Then the king sat upon a seat before his doors and Eowyn knelt before him and received from him a sword and a fair corselet."

I YELLED when I realised what I was reading right there. You see, the king doesn't just have the heralds announce that Eowyn is in charge. He gives her weapons.

Theoden makes Eowyn a knight of the Riddermark.

Not only that, but I think this is a huge deal for several reasons. That is, Tolkien knew what he was doing here.

From my reading in medieval history, I'm aware of women choosing to fight and bear arms, as well as becoming military leaders while the men are away at some war or as prisoners. What I haven't seen is women actually receiving knighthood. Anyone could fight as a knight if they could afford the (very pricy) horse and armour, and anyone could lead a nation as long as they were accepted by the leaders. But you just don't see women getting knighted like this.

Tolkien therefore chose to write a medieval-coded society, Rohan, where women arguably had greater equality with men than they did in actual medieval societies.

I think that should tell us something about who Tolkien was as a person and how he viewed women - perhaps he didn't write them with equal parity to men (there are undeniably more prominent male characters in The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, at least, than female) but compared to the medieval societies that were his life's work, and arguably even compared to the society he lived in, he was remarkably egalitarian.

I think it should also tell us something about the craft of writing fantasy.

No, you don't have to include gut wrenching misogyny and violence against women in order to write "realistic" medieval-inspired fantasy.

Tolkien's fantasy worlds are DEEPLY informed by medieval history to an extent most laypeople will never fully appreciate. The attitudes, the language, the ABSOLUTELY FLAWLESS use of medieval military tactics...heck, even just the way that people travel long distances on foot...all of it is brilliantly medieval.

The fact that Theoden bestows arms on Eowyn is just one tiny detail that is deeply rooted in medieval history. Even though he's giving those arms to a woman in a fantasy land full of elves and hobbits and wizards, it's still a wonderfully historically accurate detail.

Of course, I've ranted before about how misogyny and sexism wasn't actually as bad in medieval times as a lot of people today think. But from the way SOME fantasy authors talk, you'd think that historical accuracy will disappear in a puff of smoke if every woman in the dragon-infested fantasy land isn't being traumatised on the regular.

Tolkien did better. Be like Tolkien.

[grimecrow]

Seeing as I am seeing tons of racists go on and on about the new Lord of the Rings Magic set they never have to interact with but love to because it’s the new tissue paper veil they use to try to get away with open racism you need to remember two things.  1. *Points to the image* 2. The Tolkien Estate approved all the art so...*points to the image again*

[apoloadonisandnarcissus]

Today I came across the weirdest take that our fandom secretly hates Charlie Vickers because he, quote, “hates our stupid ship”, and we should just “stop pretending we like him”. Also: Charlotte Brändström apparently “doesn’t know what she’s talking about” (nevermind that she’s a executive producer on the show, and everything she says, publicly, has the approval of Tolkien estate).

I absolutely love Charlie’s work and I think he’s doing an outstanding job portraying Sauron, and I hope this show launches his career because he deserves it. Also: I think he’s pretty neutral and he just doesn’t care about “shipping” at all (and good for him). And I don’t know where these people got the idea that our fandom “hates” him because the majority of the shippers have always been very supportive of him (at least in here).

Lastly but not least: I don’t need the actors validating anything. And even if he did hate the ship (I think he doesn’t care, really), he’s entitled to his opinion. Hell, I don’t even need the show validating anything because that’s what fanfiction is for.

The showrunners did say that Galadriel and Sauron’s connection is the core of “Rings of Power” (all 5 seasons of it) but these people choose to ignore that, and think Galadriel and Sauron’s interactions are over after Season 2 finale, and the next big thing related to that is Frodo tempting her with the One Ring. Yeah, you are all in for a big surprise, really.

Tolkien fans have been shipping Galadriel x Sauron since the late 70’s. “Half-Maia Celebrían” theory has been around since “The Silmarillion” was first published (1977). Everyone knows they don’t “end up together”, and that Celeborn exists. But again, that’s what fanfiction is for. This ship isn’t sinking just because “they don’t end up together” in “Rings of Power”.

This new way of looking at “fandoms” is very strange to me (and I’m not that old). Like everything has to be canon or else is doomsday. And if they aren’t is a win? And “antis” are a thing? What are you all on about? A few years ago, fans would ship characters that weren’t even connected in any way, shape or form, and crossovers are still a thing, even today. When I first got into fanfiction, I would read about characters that didn’t even meet in canon. Creating our own headcanons and having fun with it, isn’t the point of fanfiction? I’m kind of confused here by nowadays logic.

[sapphologic]

Rings of Power Galadriel actually makes sense.

I'll die on this hill and maybe I'll die alone but that's not the point, if I hear another Tolkien “““loyalist””” piss and moan about her I will throw hands.

“She's not like in the movies!”

My dudes, so was Arwen when PJ replaced Glorfindel with her. That argument is hypocritical. And since when is PJ the measure for the fandom, as some of the haters even hate on these movies, despite them being masterpieces.

“She's so stubborn and rude!”

My fucking DUDES ... Her Elven name is literally 'man maiden'. Would you say the same about a male elf on a quest for revenge?

“Her lore is wrong!”

Well, the showrunners couldn't buy the rights for other writings of Tolkien than The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings and the appendices. The Estate is ...well, the Estate. I wonder if Tolkien would like the way things are handled at all. If you have to worm your way around protected lore, you gotta do it.

“Tolkien's canon is fixed.”

Holy crap, the dude wrote on toilet paper and revised so many things. At one point you just gotta say fuck it and roll with what you like. Are we going to argue about Gil-galad's canon too? Oh wait, Tolkien left that out. Conveniently. He left as many things unclear as he revised previous statements. Over and over. And over. I'm getting whiplash from it frequently.

“Her character/personality is butchered.”

No. Just no. Again: Her literal Elven name is “man-maiden.” Tomboy. Did I stutter?!

That's what you call butchery is a character arc for an amazing heroine who has yet to learn and unlearn. Her ambitions and her hatred are obstacles on the way to become the wise and fair Lady of Lórien. Again: character arc. You should look it up.

She'll have her share of experience, change of heart, desires and hopes. She will change in the series, I would swear on the precious.

You're welcome. I did the work you should do to understand the character instead of being a crybaby about the changes you don't personally approve of. Prime doesn't need your approval. What you gonna do? Piss and moan even harder?!

Also, if you hate Haladriel, don't ever come to my doorstep whining about it. Exactly the kind of ambition Galadriel shows would let someone weaker than her fall in Sauron's hands. Take his hand in marriage. Rule. (and be ruled.)

Actually that ship is worth exploring. Galadriel isn't a bad person, at best she's misled by her thirst for vengeance.

And as an encore since the fanatic crybabies love to demand that every single word written by Tolkien ever has to be met with a 1:1 transfer into other media:

The movies and/or movies doing that would be unwatchable monstrosities and no one would have the patience for that. Same stupid reasoning as in WoT. Also: would be a monstrosity and also... some things you don't want to be seen through a modern media lens...bc then your straight white male “demi god” of an author would be considered racist or sexist or homophobic... Do you really want that? I don't think so. You don't have to embrace changes blindly, but having a hissy fit like a damn toddler about each and every inconsistency/discrepancy just makes you look like a fool.

[maul-of-shame]

Elondriel is fun as a crack ship but it will never happen on the show. The Tolkien Estate has the final say in everything and they would never approve of it, it would mess up the timeline. Celeborn is Galadriel's husband and they will have Celebrian who will go on to marry Elrond, even if they don't show it on the show.

They got so much backlash from all viewers after the kiss and Amazon cares about things like that which is why they don't include the kiss in any promotional material. They pretend it does not exist. Haladriel will never happen either but they promote it because it got a positive response. If Celeborn comes on the show they will promote that relationship aswell. But Elrondriel is a fun ship to read fanfics for and make art for.

Actually, I’m going to have to respectfully disagree here—

Elrondriel is actually happening on some level, whether some people want to accept it or not.

Sure, the Tolkien Estate has the final say on the adaptations, but if you’re really looking at the facts, everything from the kiss to the proposal shots, their hand touches, and the subtle but very clear chemistry between Galadriel and Elrond, it’s all pointing in that direction. If Elrondriel had never been part of the plan for the show, none of this would have been put in the first place.

And let’s be clear here—season 1 was written with season 2 in mind, meaning they had the trajectory for this relationship set out from the start. It’s not some random, throwaway fanservice moment.

Now, as for the Tolkien Estate giving their stamp of approval, I think people are forgetting that the Estate’s involvement isn’t a one-size-fits-all restriction. They approve adaptations within the scope of what’s being done, and that includes allowing changes or creative liberties when necessary. This is why the show has been able to explore these new relationships, like the bond between Galadriel and Elrond.

The Tolkien team did approve of this direction. If it hadn't, we wouldn't have has all of this. If Elrond and Galadriel’s relationship wasn’t part of the bigger picture, you wouldn’t see those intimate moments in the show, plain and simple.

As for the idea of Celeborn and Celebrian coming into the picture—well-

Sure, Celeborn could show up, but to bring in Celebrian and have her marry Elrond would cause massive timeline issues and confusion, especially considering the way it all plays out in Tolkien’s original writings. Can you imagine Elrond falling in love with Galadriel’s daughter when he’s already been portrayed as having such a deep connection with Galadriel herself?

That would be so uncomfortable for both the characters and the audience. It would totally clash with the emotional arc and dynamic that’s been built up with Galadriel and Elrond.

Also very... """"""awkward""""" (just gonna leave this gif here....)

Plus, Celeborn and Celebrian’s roles in the show could complicate the narrative with their already established history in the timeline. It would disrupt the flow and feel like "unnecessary fan-service to please lore dudebros" rather than a natural progression of the story.

And let’s talk about this idea that the show is pretending the kiss doesn’t exist. That’s just... not exactly correct?

The kiss has been acknowledged in interviews, and they’ve made it clear that the connection between Elrond and Galadriel is one of deep significance. Heck, even Miv mentioned it first I think??? But rob defo talked about it too.

They didn’t just put that kiss in as some passing moment to ignore it later on. It’s been part of their ongoing arc, and the emotional investment they’ve shown toward each other is there for a reason.

They’re not pretending it doesn’t exist—they just haven’t been overly publicizing it because they want the storyline to build naturally.

Also hot take again but honestly, I don’t think actors should be out here with torches in the dark screaming whether ships are going to happen or not?

They’re not/rarely part of the writing or showrunning team, so it's not their place to reveal that kind of info anyway. Plus, no matter what direction the show takes, people are always going to be unhappy with it. There’s always going to be some faction that’s throwing a fit, so why would you want to throw your own characters or relationships into that kind of fire? If they say one thing, the other side’s just going to pull out the torches and pitchforks and get mad, and we’re left watching this endless cycle of “oh no, it's burning!”

We’ve seen it before in film and TV where the creative teams didn’t discuss potential pairings upfront, and things developed as the story unfolded. Relationships like these sometimes grow organically, and we’ve seen the same happen with other ships in different shows and movies that the creators didn’t talk about until it became part of the narrative. This is not some anomaly, it’s storytelling.

So, yeah. If you want to write it off as a crack ship, that’s fine—people are entitled to their opinions. In my opinion, I do Elrondriel is a real thing, and it's happening whether people like it or not.

Maybe this is me being naive, but the fact that people are so hell-bent on bashing Elrondriel, trying to tear it appart, makes me think we actually have a chance. I mean, if it weren’t even a possibility, why would anyone care so much about tearing it down? The more they protest, the more it feels like they’re just scared it might actually happen.

[sasquapossum]

I've been part of a big discussion elsewhere about Rings of Power and the liberties they've taken with Tolkien's canon. As part of that, I posted this timeline (SA = Second Age, TA = Third Age).

To be clear, I don't particularly care about the timeline itself. I have never been one of those to say that nobody can change canon at all. In fact, I haven't seen anyone take that position. Here are some things that are fine with me, and AFAICT with most other hard-core Tolkien fans.

I welcome changes that improve representation of women (Arwen, Tauriel, Galadriel) or Black people (Arondir), gay people, whatever. Tolkien was a man of his time, but also a decent man. I believe that, had he lived longer, he might well have approved such changes or even made them himself.

I also don't mind if characters are omitted (Glorfindel and especially Tom Bombadil) or added (Adar) or given new names/identities (Halbrand, The Stranger) in ways that don't significantly affect the history of Middle Earth as already known.

I don't even mind some kinds of timeline changes. Should Elendil have been alive at the same time as Celebrimbor? Well, no, but it doesn't really matter.

What I do mind is changes that harm the narrative - either Tolkien's or their own or too often both. Some events have a cause-and-effect relationship, so reordering them leads to a nonsensical result. Some characters have thematically important natures, so putting them in situations contrary to that nature is also nonsensical. It's particularly crazy to be bringing in Third Age elements when the Second Age is already far too big and busy for a single series (what I consider to be RoP's "original sin" from which most others flow). Here are some more examples.

It doesn't make sense for Gandalf or Saruman to be in Middle Earth before the events that caused the Valar to send them (Sauron's Third Age rise in opposition to Arnor and Gondor).

Ditto for barrow wights in this time period (hinted at in teasers for episodes I haven't seen myself yet). The wights were canonically princes of Cardolan, reanimated and/or possessed by the Witch King of Angmar. Cardolan didn't even exist until the Third Age, and even in RoP's own timeline the Witch King doesn't (can't) exist yet, so again this makes no sense.

Portraying the Fall of Numenor before the creation of the rings is not only gratuitous (just an excuse for some CGI) but it's also going to make it very difficult to tell the full story - which BTW includes Sauron as a prisoner - later even in RoP's own timeline. I'd like to see that story, so that's a loss.

Having Tom Bombadil tutor Gandalf (also hinted at in spoilers) changes both characters into something else entirely. Gandalf was already thousands of years old and should need no such tutoring; his amnesia was already an unnecessary creation within RoP. Tom, to the extent that he's anything more than a last vestige of the Hobbit writing style, is an enigma intentionally placing himself above and beyond such worldly concerns. He is almost the anti-Istari so having him help one is just silly.

By making these changes, and many more, the RoP folks have made a muddled mess. It's the same mistake David Lynch made in his 1984 version of Dune, which was widely and rightly panned for ham-fistedly trying to cram much into too small a space. Amazon's changes not only do a disservice to Tolkien's canon, but they're degrading their own as well.

Another thing that infuriates me about this is the hypocrisy of the Tolkien estate. For decades, Christopher (Rot In Piss) and his successors have ruthlessly quashed any retelling of stories in Tolkien's world. I used to play LotR Online, which suffered under this yoke for years. I'm aware of multiple fanfic authors who were legally threatened for having dared to mention one thing in that canon. Then the estate turns around and approves a project that puts the entire history of Middle Earth in a blender? No, I do not accept such double standards. This is all a huge money grab, pure and simple.

I know that other people would draw the lines differently than I do. They would accept things that I don't, and vice versa. That's all fine. Live and let live, as I always say. I'm watching and enjoying the series, just as I have enjoyed others (e.g. Wheel of Time) that are inspired by Tolkien but not set in his world. But I also think I should be allowed to notice and have my own opinions about those things too. Apparently the RoP stans disagree. Literally all of the gatekeeping and all of the vitriol in these discussions have come from that direction. Even the worst Tolkien purists I've ever met accept that he had his flaws as a writer, and that adaptation to a new medium in a new time means some changes. They're not the problem; it's the people who think RoP takes precedence over Tolkien's own vision who are the problem.

[rey-jake-therapist]

Is it weird that I only find Celedriel interesting to explore if he was Adar?? Like I know that is long past dead, the train has left the station, Elvis has left the building, yada yada but.. I'd be 100% down if Gal and Adarborn were endgame in the show. I was holding my breath during the first time I watched *that* moment. At first I thought the reason I'm down for it is because Adar is fleshed out, he's got his own thing going on, his life doesn't revolve around Galadriel, but then I realized I don't see Elondriel appealing NOT because their relationship is sibling-coded, but because of something ELSE... It's because I prefer morally gray to black as the void with-a-tint-of-grey-if u-tilt-your-head-a-little characters in my ships, LOL. Fictional characters are so fun to play barbie dolls with :)

Please don't take no offence of this post anon, but I have to say it : I never understood the Adar = Celeborn theory, and I don't think I ever will. I can give you several reasons for that :

Galadriel didn't recognize him at all, even after spending several hours in his company. Corruption didn't change Adar's face *so much* that she wouldn't recognize her own husband. We saw it when he was healed by Nenya : he was pretty much the same guy, but with a clear skin. Galadriel probably spent several centuries at least with Celeborn before he went to war, so I highly doubt that she would just "forget" how he looked.

Celeborn is canonically a blond in LOTR : he's specfically described as having silver blond hair, to differentiate this hair from Galadriel's, which is more a golden blond, so it's not really something that can be overlooked), Adar was dark haired. There's no reason for Celeborn to have different hair color as Adar : dark haired people aren't associated with evil in the Tolkien lore. Actually Gil-Galad's hair is a black as a crow, and he's definitely one of the good guys.

Adar was Sauron's right hand for thousands of years. He became the father of the Orcs. It would be huge change of the lore to give such a role to a character who's originally no more than Galadriel's trophy husband. Since the Tolkien estate was involved and no plot decision could be taken without their approval, I don't think they would have approved that tbh.

There was nothing in their interactions, or even in their individual scenes that ever indicated that Adar could be Celeborn. The fact that they both planted seeds in different scenes was just meant to tell the audience that Adar remained an Elf despite the corruption, as he kept respecting Elvish tradtions. And it was probably foreshadowing his redemption, too : he was never truly gone, because he never got rid of his Elvish roots. When they met, they acted as two people who got screwed up by the same shitty boyfriend, who was Sauron. Adar didn't seem romantically interested in Galadriel (and since he commented on the beauty of two different men, Sauron and Elrond, while he didn't say anything about Galadriel's, I rather believe he was gay), and Galadriel didn't seem romantically interested in him either.

But on the principle, yes, I agree with you it would have been more interesting for Adar to be Celeborn.

[wild-flowerhoney]

I don't know how bold the showrunners are, but I never expected the Galadriel/Elrond kiss to happen, and it was approved by the Tolkien Estate.

Glorfindel and Tom Bombadil don't exist in the movies, and that breaks the lore, so I could in theory see Elrondriel happen to cut out filler characters that add nothing to the story, especially with the timeline compression they've chosen to apply.

Also, the showrunners have said in an interview (nerd of the rings) that some characters would gain more importance, and I suspect they were talking about Gil-galad and Elendil. I can't see them adding Celeborn after the fall of Eregion. He adds nothing to the many storylines in motion.

Elrond is the one who will defend Imladris against Sauron, he's the one who will obtain Vilya, Gil-galad's ring, and he will be made vice-regent of Eriador. Celeborn is really not needed.

they've made some important Choices with elrond and galadriel's characters - the easy intimacy, the physical closeness, posing them as one another's confidant. they definitely knew where they were heading and if they're gonna cut out some lore it would be extremely easy to replace it with elrondriel and the 'casual' fans (unaware of what's in the books basically) would not even realise it, especially since i know some people actually thought it was already a thing in the PJ movies (whatever they had going on in the hobbit was. interesting.)

in the show itself elrond really covers all that celeborn could've been, so i don't see him as necessary either, especially since i dont see how they could introduce him without cutting back on what they've already started.

also them having the stamp of approval for that dynamic is really interesting - tolkien did initially write galadriel and elrond as being married, after all.

[buffyfan145]

Fellowship of Fans was back today with their first scoops for 2024 for "Rings of Power" s2 and we finally got ones about The Stranger, Nori, and their adventure!!! 😀 I'm really excited about this storyline and what we got today including more confirmation that Amazon has gotten more approval to use certain things from Tolkien's other work.

First spoiler is that when The Stranger and Nori travel east they will meet another "wizard" that will help train The Stranger. They don't know yet if this is another Istari or just another magical being.

Amazon has been given permission from the Tolkien Estate/Embracer to use texts from "Unfinished Tales" about the Istari and have gotten the ok to use all 5 wizards for what the show's story needs. This includes Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, and the two Blue Wizards. Going back to first spoiler there's now speculation if The Stranger is Gandalf (which I've fully believed this whole time) that the trainer is either Saruman or one of the Blue Wizards. Already some fans are upset as this changes canon of when Gandalf and the other Istari arrived but it does makes sense with the show's mashing up of all the 2nd Age happening at once.

The Mumakhils/ Oliphaunts will appear in season 2 and listed as creatures being created for the show with CGI.

Finally The Stranger is being built up to be Sauron's main rival. This season he'll learn his abilities and reveal more about his purpose. This clearly has to prove he's Gandalf and setting up everything that's to come. Plus, if we go back to those leaks from The One Ring Net, they said there were flashbacks showing The Stranger/Gandalf/Mirthrander and Sauron/Mairon/Halbrand (Charlie Vickers filmed these flashback scenes and FOF already posted that he's playing the Mairon form too) confirming their past in Valinor. This all seems to go together and I'm really excited to see this as Gandalf has always been one of my favorite characters and I figured the finale finally confirmed it was him so looks like we'll finally get this for sure in s2.

[lilithsaintcrow]

Babe?

Babe, wake up. New Tolkien operas are about to drop.

[genquerdeer]

Okay but question:

Why WON'T Tolkien estate profit off this by releasing a gimmick edition where all of the proper nouns are untranslated and 'remain original'? I think that would be something Tolkien nerds would approve of.

One of the ballsiest things Tolkien ever did was write 473k words about some hobbits called frodo, sam, merry, and pippin and then write in the appendices that their names are actually maura, ban, kali, and razal. 

[zorosroronoas]

Lol I saw that and apparently, it took years to make that gifset jfc. ROP is in a no-win situation where ppl will always complain. If it's too different from PJ LOTR, they complain. If it's too similar, they complain.

The funniest part is that the Tolkien Estate doesn't care because they expended the license to ROP to include more characters.

it's truly baffling to me that they took the time to watch the show, remember all the little references, select all the clips of those scenes, look for the equivalent in the lotr trilogy & make that gifset…. over the course of literal years. like talk about living rent free in their minds.

i've also read that the scripts for the rings of power go through the tolkien estate, so they clearly don't give a damn & approve of what's happening in the show, so there goes the 'they are ruining tolkien!' narrative.

plus if they really want to go there, apparently christopher tolkien hated the jackson movies… so which one is it?

[lesbiansforboromir]

hi! you don't have to answer and I'm sorry if I misunderstood what you said, but I think it's a little unfair to say you cannot distinguish people who criticise trop because they're racist vs because they don't want to support amazon vs because it doesn't follow the "original storyline". also the Jackson trilogy had its fair share of problems, but they mostly followed the story and I think the heart was there. amazon has to change a lot of plot points because they don't own the rights to the silmarillion, so it's not really the same thing. I understand the need for caution because unfortunately the tolkien fandom is full of misogynists and white supremacists, but I don't think it's as undistinguishable as you made it to be. again, sorry if you're done talking about this, I love your blog, nor trying to start any shit. ok bye <3

Never done talking about this! Might be talking about this for weeks to come.

To be clear, what I mean is that the talking points are indistinguishable. If I see someone talking about how RoP is betraying Tolkien's vision or how this is a sin against Tolkien or how he's rolling in his grave and other such rhetoric, I cannot tell if that person is saying it because they don't like the canon changes, or because they are racist. Because I have seen all sides of the fence, often verbatim! make those same points. The only way to tell where they fall is often either digging quite deep into their social media, or by actually engaging with them in a discussion that can get incredible nasty very quickly. And even then, it is not a surefire thing. And with the massive weight of the backlash, often you don't really have time to do any of that in the first place. What I'm saying is that, no matter the original intention, the vitriol and aggression of the pushback against RoP is only serving the white supremacists, no one else.

Next, and I'll keep saying this until the cows come home, they have absolutely enough of the rights to the canon material to adapt the Akallabeth. They do not have to change a lot of plot points. They are making plot points, in order to fill in for the scarcity of character and plot within the actual text itself, but they are fully able to tell this story. They even have special dispensation from the tolkien estate to use material they dont have the rights too on a case by case approval basis. This is misinformation which is, I'm pretty sure, from the racist backlash on places like youtube.

Peter Jackson, I might add, had the rights to a fully written and characterised story with everything he needed and he STILL changed: - Every character's personality, and most of their motives and dialogue - Removed characters with large speaking roles and entire sections of the story including the ending to the whole thing! - Removed all of the complexity to the plot, the philosophy, the mentions of the west, boiled down every theme to something something 'friendship' and Frodo's whole agency in the ring's destruction entirely.

So I really don't see where RoP is going wrong if we're all fine with the jackson trilogy. Is it the heart? If you watched the interviews from cast and crew, I think you'd find a lot of what you're looking for. Peter Jackson was under the thumb of a massive profiteering mega corporation too, Harvey Weinstein literally produced those films.

I'm not saying you can't dislike it, I'm not even saying don't criticise it or hate on it! What I'm saying is #1 think about where you got the information that caused you to hate it, #2 make sure that's not misinformation #3 allow RoP's right to exist, even if you hate it. Don't treat tolkien's work like a religious text that cannot be tainted, it is still just a story and anyone could improve upon it if they wished.

[the-celluloid-correspondent]

The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

Thousand of years before the Fellowship of the Rings, the land of Elves, Men, Dwarves, and Numenorians, lived in peace till darkness returned from the shadows.

Amazons billion dollar gamble, The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, has finally arrived, and it is a disaster. The speculation, controversy, and mixed anticipation, have caused my expectation for this series to be rock bottom. Yet somehow, Amazon has managed to go lower than the Mariana Trench. When this series was first announced, I was not precisely happy because I thought they were doing a remake of The Lord of the Rings. Which I thought was way too early and unneeded. Then, they finally showed the map of Numenor, and I became incredibly excited. The fall of Numenor and the history of the entire Second Age is something that I would love to see a proper adaptation of. So my hope became incredibly high for the series, but sadly it was a fool's hope. Soon after the beginning of production, negative stories began coming out. Renowned Tolkien Scholar, Tom Shippy, was fired from the series. A rumor that the entire writer's room was fired, and actors leaving due to creative differences. It had all the signs of a negative series brewing. Then the first articles, interviews, and pictures arrived, and my worst fears were confirmed. Amazon was turning Tolkien's beloved work into something that it was not and using his name as an embezzlement scheme.

There is so much wrong with Rings of Power I don't even know where to begin. It became apparent in the opening moments that they threw Tolkien's masterful work out the window and decided that they wanted to tell Tolkien's mythos better than he could. Not only is Rings of Power a complete butchery of Tolkien's work, but it is a disaster in itself. The showrunners and writers violate so many basics of storytelling that I am gobsmacked by how second-rate the story is. Instead of telling a compelling story with great characters, dialogue, and action, the showrunners decided to rely on numerous "mystery boxes," such as who Sauron is, to keep the audience engaged. The Mystery Boxes causes the story to focus heavily on hitting multiple plot points rather than telling a cohesive story. Thus forcing the pacing of the series to be all over the place. The audience is thrown into four plotlines, and none of them are given a chance to properly breathe and develop, causing most of their storylines to feel like filler. Then, when the story does develop, they bulldoze through it at lightning speed. All conflicts are told to the audience rather than being shown, and like the story, it's immediately resolved with ease or offscreen. Therefore, causing there to be no emotional payoff nor tension and stakes. How can I care for these characters if they never feel in danger? What further adds to the disastrous storytelling of the series is that almost all of the plotlines and scenes are stolen from someone else. Numerous storylines are rip-offs of the stories in Tolkien's work that Amazon does not have the rights to. Many scenes feel like cheap copies of scenes in the Jackson trilogies. This series wants to stand as its own house but uses the groundwork and the brickwork of its predecessors as cheap nostalgia bait. Ultimately, I am amazed by how the Tolkien Estate approved this series but condemned the Jackson films.

Even with numerous talented writers and the showrunners being former script doctors, it could not save this series from atrocious dialogue and writing. Every once in a while, a line or conversation enveloped Tolkien's writing style. When characters speak in Tolkien's work, it's elevated but straight to the point and brings in wise proverbs, poetry, and similes/metaphors when needed. However, most of the writing feels like they were trying so hard to capture Tolkien's linguistic style that it's a meandering mess (think of the opening about why ships float and rocks sink). While the remainder of the writing is a rip-off from the Jackson Trilogies written by AI. Paper-thin and unlikeable characters also add to the series' atrocious writing. Canon characters are not like their canon counterparts, looking at you, Galadriel. Non-canon characters feel like cheap, made-in-China knockoffs of canon characters (Nori = female Frodo, Arondir = token Legolas, etc.). Nearly all the characters are written as inconsistent as Jeff Bezos's tax returns. For example, Galadriel fantasizes about committing genocide against the orcs while torturing Adar, and then five minutes later, she states you should not be happy about killing orcs. A key to writing great characters is to have their morals established and slowly change and build them as their character arc progress. Instead, Rings of Power decided to have the character's morals change from scene to scene with a coin toss. The character's plot armor is miles thick. I am still dumbfounded about how they all survived a pyroclastic flow without a single scratch. Nearly all the characters are so unlikable that I am cheering for Sauron to win.

Even the acting is as atrocious as the story and writing. However, I will state the best performances came from Joseph Mawle, Lloyd Owen, Robert Aramayo, and Owain Arthur. They were really the only performances that captured their characters, had life to them, and were not wooden. I will raise a glass to you, gentlemen, because your backs must be sore from carrying all the performances of this series; you deserve much better than this. For the role of Galadriel, it would be tough shoes to fill given its predecessor performance from Cate Blanchett, but Morfydd Clark completely fails. Her only expression on screen is the "resting bitch face." She has zero charisma, is incredibly wooden, and does not hold any of the power of Galadriel. I can't believe that the showrunner stripped her of her femininity and turned her into a villain. Ismael Cruz Cordova and Nazanin Boniadi have zero chemistry with one another, and their love story is forced and cliched. Cordova constantly looks like he is constipated, and Boniadi is unconvincing as a leader. Charlie Vickers fails entirely as a made-in-China Aragorn. Charles Edwards is grossly miscast as Celebrimbor. Markella Kavenagh, Megan Richards, Lenny Henry, and the remaining psychopathic Harfoots bring possibly one of the most offensive performances of the series with their over-the-top, stereotypical, and harmful Irish accents. (If you are unaware, the Harfoods are portrayed as a racist stereotype of the Irish, specifically Travellers. There goes the series standing against and condemning racism when they have no problem portraying racist stereotypes of others). None of the remaining cast has charisma and is doing the bare minimum for their roles.

The only part of this series where you can see its budget is its VFX. Sadly, good VFX can't save a show; as Tolkien wonderfully puts it, "All that is gold does not glitter." The costumes look incredibly cheap and poorly fitted to the actors. Many costumes are printed in sweatshops and not embroidered like in the original trilogies. The armor looks like it is made out of plastic. The production design is also inferior and looks like something out of a historical documentary. Many of the sets are being used for similar sequences (Isildur and Halbrand both get beat up in the same alleyway) and don't feel lived it. Thus causing the world to feel incredibly small and lifeless. Though the score by Bear McCreary itself is excellent, it is poorly used in this series. The score is either bursting our eardrums or entirely non-existent. It never feels part of the story, only just there. Character design is absolute garbage. Elves and Numenorians look like regular people, and dwarf women miss their iconic beards. The cinematography is beautiful, but it feels lifeless in many shots. Mainly due to the series copying the legendary cinematography by the late Andrew Lesnie in the Jackson trilogies. The only good thing I can think of is that the orcs look really good.

I understand that this series did not have all of the rights to the Second Age. I know that many aspects will be made up and compressed to tell a better visual story, but they threw Tolkien's mythos out the window and decided they would tell the Second Age better than Tolkien. The audacity of not only the creators of the series but also the Tolkien Estate, specifically Simon Tolkien, is almost insulting. They have turned Tolkien's legendary work into a made-by-committee, embezzlement cash grab that only Morgoth could create. This series is a mockery of Tolkien's work. The showrunners could have made their own fantasy or fleshed out a part of Middle Earth that was left unwritten, i.e., the Haradrim and the Easterling. But nope, they had to go with the second age. All they had to do was fill in the gaps and flesh out the story. If the series was unrelated to Tolkien's work, it would have bombed and been canceled after its first season. This series is so bad that I could probably write dozens of essays on everything wrong with this show. This review barely scratches the surface of what is wrong with this show. This series can only bring me back if they fire everyone working on it and hire people who care about Tolkien's work.

For the end of this review, I will leave you with a quote that perfectly describes this series. As wonderfully stated by Frodo Baggins as he is in the heart of Mordor in Return of the King, "A Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real things of its own."

I am giving The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, an F.

[jonsaeverafter]

Well, it was always strange in the trilogy movies that, of all the characters in Middle-earth, Sauron would choose Galadriel to reach out to. Why? Have any of you ever gotten any answers? Because I don’t remember we were given any.

And a reminder to the book purists: the estate of Tolkien has approved all this, so why do some of you think you know more than them? I’m sure Tolkien left many unfinished letters in which he may have wanted to bring together Sauron and Galadriel. A lot of what he wrote was vague and open to interpretation for those who chose to tell the story or film it. It was one of the best decisions they made in bringing Sauron and Galadriel together.

I would like to know who had the idea of ​​making Galadriel and Sauron have a romantic narrative, to contextualize some plots in the future, the truth is that it was very bold and I think it was one of the best decisions they made.